In this interview series, we get to know the 2024 Freshwater Fellows—a cohort of human rights leaders working with the Freshwater Institute to develop alternative revenue streams for human rights initiatives in East Asia. We wanted to ask them how they got their start in human rights work, the challenges they face, and what they do to stay relaxed and optimistic.
Our third interview in the series is with Shu-Wei Yang (楊書瑋), Deputy Secretary-General of the Taiwan Labor Front (TLF). TLF works to resolve individual labor disputes, assists workers in forming unions, and advocates for pro-labor policies, always standing in solidarity with workers.
Shu-Wei Yang, deputy secretary-general of the Taiwan Labor Front
Freshwater: Can you tell us how you started working in human rights?
I entered the human rights field relatively late. Although I majored in social work in college, I wasn’t very interested in the social work profession. During the summer break between my junior and senior years, I interned at TLF, where I was exposed to many issues. TLF not only cares about labor issues but also pays attention to various international human rights issues. There, I saw a group of people doing things differently from what we see in mainstream media or society. I started to develop different ideas, which was the beginning of my real involvement in human rights. After completing my military service in 2010, I began working at TLF and have been here ever since.
Freshwater: Freshwater Institute is supporting civil society leaders to develop innovative human rights projects. Can you tell us how your project came about?
TLF’s project is called “Unions Unveiled” , a video project aimed at exploring labor rights and unions in Taiwan. The core value is to discuss not only labor laws but also dignified work for workers, which involves talking about the right to unionize. Through the videos, we want to show what labor solidarity means and how it is implemented through union organizing. In this project, we interviewed and filmed eight company unions in Taiwan across different industries including publicly-owned industries, transportation, manufacturing, and banking. We discussed how unions operate in real life, the roles they play, and how they help their members achieve better working conditions. The project has been completed, with eight videos uploaded to TLF’s YouTube channel, iLabor. We are currently reviewing and evaluating the project’s effectiveness and planning for the next phase.
There is also a business model associated with this project. In return for producing these videos, we hope unions will make a donation or payment to us and thereby become a stable revenue source. For now, we are providing these videos to the unions for free to strengthen our relationship with the unions, and some of them have responded by increasing their donations to us.
Freshwater: What are some of the challenges you face in this project and in your work in general?
Apart from project difficulties, human rights work itself is challenging. Advocacy often involves social dialogue, as advocacy groups typically lead public opinion. Some issues we identify as harmful to society are not perceived as such by the general public, requiring significant effort to engage society. For example, pension reform and halting nuclear power plant construction faced significant backlash despite initial progress. Advocacy for institutional changes often takes a long time, unlike service provision which can show immediate results. TLF’s ongoing issues, such as establishing a minimum wage system and protecting workers’ rights in legal proceedings often require over a decade of effort, leading to occasional disappointments.
Freshwater: How has Freshwater Institute’s Human Rights Accelerator Program been helpful to you?
The Accelerator has helped TLF think about issues in ways that are atypical for Taiwanese advocacy organizations. The program includes testing [prototyping] and refining [our project to generate revenue], which are crucial as resources for advocacy in Taiwan are limited, requiring efficient resource maximization. The program also introduces different perspectives by bringing together groups advocating for different issues – labor, legal reform, democratic resilience – facilitating broader thinking across sectors. The toolkits provided [by Freshwater] helps us identify stakeholders, map event chains, and clarify our objectives and next steps through structured methods.
Freshwater: If there is one thing you wish people could know about the issue you work on, what would that be?
The most important thing is for people to be aware of their exploitation. While TLF’s ultimate mission is to make Taiwan a country free from exploitation, raising awareness about such issues is not easy. We use education and videos to increase this awareness. Much of TLF’s current work revolves around this goal.
Labor Front uses performance art to draw public attention to labor issues
Freshwater: What keeps you motivated?
It’s impossible to feel passionate about work every day. Sometimes, it feels like no matter how much effort you put in, nothing seems to change, and societal misunderstandings can be discouraging. In Taiwan, there’s a tendency to label any advocacy as politically biased, which can be disheartening. However, seeing institutional changes brings immense joy. For example, when I joined TLF in 2010, we were advocating for a clear definition of minimum wage, which finally became law in 2023, giving us a great sense of accomplishment. Advocacy may take time, but gradual [societal] acceptance and political support show that our efforts can lead to change and that helps offset the frustration.
Shu-Wei Yang hosting a press conference on minimum wage legislation
Freshwater: What is something you do for fun or to relax?
I enjoy trying new foods with my wife, especially different flavors of pizza. We travel abroad once a year. I also watch short videos on topics like gaming and models, and I like buying capsule toys, which are affordable and keep me happy.
Freshwater: Thinking of the human rights issue you are working on, what would success feel like to you? What would make you feel like it was all worth it?
For human rights advocates, defining success is challenging. It could be a specific law’s enactment or its effective implementation. I believe the biggest achievement is when more people start to agree with the values we promote, making the work feel worthwhile. The ultimate goal for advocates is to render their organization unnecessary, meaning the issue has been resolved. However, labor issues will always exist due to new societal challenges. While TLF may not become obsolete in the next few decades, I believe Taiwan is moving in a positive direction.
We can always see the presence of Taiwan Labor Front in demonstrations
思流學院人權加速器參與者系列專訪：台灣勞工陣線楊書瑋
在這個系列專訪中，我們將介紹思流學院2023-24人權加速器計劃參與者，這9位人權領袖與思流學院合作，為東亞人權倡議活動開發新型態收入來源。我們想了解他們如何開始從事人權工作、他們所面臨的挑戰，以及他們如何放鬆身心並保持樂觀。
本系列第三組專訪對象為台灣勞工陣線（下方簡稱「勞陣」）副秘書長楊書瑋，勞陣從解決個別勞資爭議、協助勞工籌組工會，到現在致力於勞動政策的批判與改革，一直和勞工站在同一陣線。
勞陣副秘書長楊書瑋
- 可不可以和我們聊聊，你是如何開始從事人權工作的？
我算是比較晚進入人權領域的，雖然我大學主修社工系，但我對社工比較沒有太大的興趣。大三升大四那年暑假，我來到勞陣實習，開始接觸到許多議題。勞陣除了關心勞動議題之外，也關心許多國際上在聲援的人權議題。我那時候覺得台灣有一群人在做的事情，好像和我們在主流媒體或日常生活中看到的不太一樣，我也開始有一些比較不一樣的思維與想法，這才是我開始真的接觸人權領域的起點。我在2010年當兵退伍後就來勞陣工作，就一直工作到現在。
- 思流學院旨在協助公民社會領袖發展創新的人權加速器計畫，請介紹一下你的計畫並聊聊你的進度。
勞陣的計畫叫做工會開箱，這是一個影片拍攝計畫，主要就是想探討台灣的勞動人權，核心價值就是除了勞動法令的規範之外，也想談的讓勞工有尊嚴地工作，這就會需要談到團結權。所以我們想透過影片讓大家知道什麼是勞工團結權，勞工團結權落實的方式就是組織工會。在這個計畫裡，我們訪談、拍攝了八間台灣的企業工會，其中包含不同的產業型態，例如：國營企業、運輸企業、製造業、銀行業，我們去談工會如何在現實生活中運作，可以扮演什麼樣的角色，如何幫會員爭取到更好的勞動條件，讓勞動環境更有品質。目前這個計畫我們已經拍攝完畢，總共有八支影片，都放在台灣勞工陣線YouTube頻道iLabor上。現在影片都拍攝完畢，我們在回顧跟評估說這個計畫實施的成效，然後再來做計畫下一階段的改善。
這個計劃背後也有一個商業模式，透過製作工會影片，我們希望工會能捐款或支付費用給勞陣，進而成為我們穩定的財源之一。不過我們目前是免費提供工會影片，藉此加強和工會之間的關係，其中某些工會也因為這個計劃，提高了他們的年度捐款。
- 請說說你在這個計畫和工作裡遇到的一些困難
除了推動這個計畫的困難，也有人權工作本身的困難。身為人權倡議團體，很多時候在做的是社會對話，因為倡議團體其實常常走在主流意見前面。我們發現有些問題是會危害到社會大眾，但一般社會大眾可能不這樣覺得，此時就必須花很大的心力進行社會對話。舉例而言，年金改革或核四停建一開始推動時可能有些進展，但議題熱度一過，反對團體便開始透過政治力量或是其他方式反撲。另外，我們在做一些制度倡議也會需要很長的時間，因為推動法令制度的修法或立法非常困難，很難立即看到成效。勞陣在推動的議題，例如：建立最低工資的制度、保障勞工在司法訴訟上的權利，常常可能需要花十年以上的時間運作，所以有時候真的會感覺有點灰心。
- 加速器計畫如何幫助你面對眼前的挑戰？
加速器計畫幫助勞陣用比較非典型台灣倡議組織的方式去思考議題，包括計畫要有[商業原型的]前測、修正計畫[以讓我們獲得收入]，因為有時我們在台灣倡議時資源都很有限，你必須要很快地想辦法讓資源最大化。參與加速器計畫也能為我們帶來不同的思維，因為參與者不只有勞工團體，也有司法團體，還有關心民主韌性的團體，大家會站在不同的角度去思考議題。加速器計畫提供的工具包也會教我們盤點相關利害關係人，思考事件鍊和改變理論，透過比較圖表、流程式的方式釐清我們的目標和下一步。
- 就你關注的議題而言，如果你只能讓大眾知道一件事，那會是什麼？
我覺得最重要的事情是，要有意識到自己被剝削，雖然勞陣的最終使命是讓台灣成為一個沒有剝削的國家，但要讓大家覺察到此類事件的發生，並不是一件很容易的事情，所以我們會透過教育推廣或影片拍攝，讓大家會有更多這樣的意識，勞陣和我現階段在做的事，大多都是圍繞在這件事上。
勞陣以行動劇讓公眾關注勞工議題
- 是什麼讓你保持動力？
當然不可能每天對工作都很有熱情，有時候確實也會覺得好像做再多努力，也不會產生任何改變，社會群眾又會對你有所誤解。尤其台灣很喜歡為倡議貼上政治標籤，你就是某個黨的側翼，但是事實就不是這樣子啊！但是如果真的看到制度上有些改變，喜悅感也很大的。我2010年進入勞陣時，就是在推最低工資審議的制度，2023年終於立法，這就為我們帶來很大的成就感。因此，我認為持續倡議可能很費時，但確實會帶來一些改變，大家也會慢慢願意接受你的說法，政治人物也會接收到這個訊息，他們也會願意去推動制度改變，我們看到改變逐漸發生的喜悅有時候就可以彌補掉挫折感。
楊書瑋於最低工資立法記者會擔任主持人
- 平時你都做些什麼事放鬆？
我喜歡和太太一起吃美食，嘗試一些不同口味的披薩，一年大概都會出國一次。我也會看一些我有興趣的短影片，例如：電玩或模型相關的主題。我也喜歡買一些扭蛋，這很療癒、費用也沒有到很高，就可以幫助我維持愉悅的心情。
- 面對你正在處理的人權問題，怎麼樣對你來說算是成功呢？怎麼樣會讓你覺得一切都是值得的？
我覺得人權倡議工作者，很難有個很明確的績效指標，該算是某一部法律的立法呢？或者某一部法律落實的成效呢？我自己覺得，當很多人開始逐漸認同你推動的理念，那就是很大的成果，也會讓你覺得工作都很值得，這對人權工作者來說，就是很大的成果。很多倡議工作者會說組織的最終目標是消滅自己，倡議組織不存在，就表示這個議題已經不存在。可是社會上不可能不存在勞工議題，因為新型態的社會議題還是會不斷出現。雖然勞陣再十幾二十年後也很難被消滅，但是我相信整個社會或者台灣還是在往好的方向前進。
在各種社會運動中，總會看得到勞陣的身影